13 years in the enemy’s lair: Roman Tsimbaliuk on the real Putin and the elimination of Skabeeva
3 February 16:42
INTERVIEW
Roman Tsimbaliuk, a former Ukrainian special correspondent who lived and worked in Moscow for 13 years, shares his unique experience in understanding Russian propaganda and his vision of how events on the front line will unfold. In an interview with "Komersant Ukrainian", as the only Ukrainian journalist accredited in Russia after 2017, Cymbalyuk talks about his experience communicating with Russian propagandist Olga Skabeeva and the morning when he realized that staying in Moscow was risky and dangerous, how he managed to leave Russia shortly before the war began, and what he would like to ask Putin now if he had the opportunity.
– While you were in Moscow, did you think about what you would do if you ended up in a Russian prison? Were there any threats?
-I knew perfectly well that the time had come to flee.
– Did you have your own informants?
-Chuyka, actually. In 2021, Vladimir Solovyov and Masha Zakharova repeatedly discussed my life in Moscow in the morning: what I do, where my children are, which restaurants I go to. I never reacted to this, but I always listened. And in one of these morning conversations, Masha Zakharova said that the court should determine the degree of Cymbalyuk’s guilt. As soon as I heard this, I got into my car, filled up at Gazprom, and drove to Kyiv. My family arrived on February 22, 2022. My wife counted the tanks that were already at the border, and I think it was one of the last cars with Russian license plates that legally entered Ukrainian territory with Russian license plates. That’s all. I’m not interested in talking about it, and there’s definitely nothing heroic about it.
– Did you understand then why they were trying to accuse you of something? Was this a sign that the noose was tightening and that a full-scale war was inevitable?
That’s an interesting question, actually. They accused me of inciting hatred and hostility towards the social group “Ruski,” “Rossiyane,” and the Russian authorities in general. This was 2.5 months before the war. I naively thought that Russians were smarter than that. Incidentally, the entire political elite thought so. The decision to go to war is still 99.9% Putin’s personal decision.
It’s ridiculous, but they even made me a foreign agent. How can I be an agent if I’m a foreign correspondent? I don’t own any real estate in Moscow, nor do I have any bank accounts there. I’m not stupid enough to buy an apartment in Russia. Why the hell would I need one there?
– About Skabeeva. There is a photo of you together on one of Moscow’s streets online. Who is this person? Does she really believe what she broadcasts?
-She is a soldier and follows orders. She has no feelings or anything else. She could have shot me then if she had had a gun in her hands and orders to shoot. This is called the Russian Federation’s information troops. These are Putin’s most elite units. In fact, our Security Service of Ukraine knows very well who is working on propaganda against us — from Gromov, Putin’s deputy, to Peskov. They are all on that list. Olya is a general, if we are to use military terms.
– What rank do you think you have? How many stars have they taken off your shoulders?
-I have a YouTube gold button, if you look at it from that point of view. Perhaps it’s a brigadier general, if we measure it in those terms. But I don’t really want to draw such parallels. Why? Because we don’t have information troops, and I don’t really want to attach myself to the military. The military is the military. You are important, and your information work is important, but I’m not ready to take on any stars. Although I recently received a certificate.
Which Western leader has disappointed you the most over the past year?
No one charmed me enough to disappoint me. The main thing is that our government does not disappoint. Western leaders have their own voters. Let them deal with them. We have to deal with our own. The Queen of Spain impressed me. A year ago, she was pelted with either clay or eggs. There was a flood there and many people died. The government simply did not make the necessary decisions, and the outraged Spaniards threw objects at the queen. She is so cute — she shops at Zara.
-What would you ask our president right now?
-I would have questions, and they would be about the war. By the way, I am not invited to our president’s press conferences. The questions are simple—mobilization, the TCK. Here in Lviv, a Ukrainian soldier, a Ukrainian defender, was killed. What did everyone write? I want to tell journalists that we are probably a little screwed, to be honest. This is my personal opinion. Just keep in mind that when the topic of the TCC is discussed, Russian bots actively start writing there and undermining the rear. I saw the reaction of Lviv Mayor Sadovyi, but the President of Ukraine, as Commander-in-Chief, said nothing. For some reason, he doesn’t like to use the word “mobilization” at all. Although there are things for which the military-political leadership is responsible, including the state’s attitude towards the army. The TCC is part of the ground forces, and if you sum it all up, figuratively speaking, whoever is caught is the one who fights. Sorry, but that’s not really the right approach.
– What do you consider your new achievement during this time in Ukraine?
-I created my YouTube channel, and in fact, it has become a separate media outlet. And that’s a business. It’s media, advertisers. Before that, I worked for a salary. In Moscow, it was great, but it was still a salary. So, professionally speaking, I think that I, a person who still stutters a lot and confuses vowels, was just lucky. Now I’ve started to speak Ukrainian more or less well, because I had problems with that.
– Was this a conscious choice or a decision dictated by someone else?
-I run a YouTube channel in Russian. I think that this is enough to prove that we are not punished for speaking Russian. In real life, I only speak Ukrainian — with you, in stores, on the street. I’m like a person who came to work at a car service: I turned nuts, ran around everywhere, and now I’m the director. Professionally, it’s luck.
-What is your message on YouTube?
-The message is actually this: Ukraine was, is, and will be. Right now, we are talking about difficult negotiations with the Americans, about our president, whom many of us no longer like. But we dislike even more what they are trying to persuade him to do. Although I believe that we have every chance of pulling through.
– Politicians often say this. We have already won because we have preserved our statehood. We have already won because we have stood our ground. We are powerful, powerful, and powerful…
-I did not say the word “powerful.” On the contrary, I say that there are still many uncertain nuances. But we have preserved our statehood. That is a fact. What was Vladimir Putin’s goal when he began the invasion? To ensure that Ukraine would cease to exist as an independent state. There were situations in Donbas, and in Pokrovsk, and in Mirnograd, in particular. I never forget that. In general, information from the front line is the most important. But still, at least as of now, it looks like we have preserved our state. Therefore, I do not consider this to be populism. It is clear that if or when the fighting ends, there will be a lot of controversy about how we fought and whether we fought correctly. We are aware of all our mistakes. It’s just that no one is talking about it right now. Especially those from 2022. No one has forgotten anything.
– Roman, do you know what percentage of Russians watch you?
-When I returned from Moscow, it was 50%. Now it’s 10%, but YouTube is completely banned there. Everything is blocked. My friends watch through a VPN. In Iran, no one used to watch me. Now, for some reason, they’ve started watching. I don’t know what has caused this interest.
– What will happen to Russia after this war ends? Demographically, socially, economically, politically?
– Most likely, everyone will work to prevent it from falling apart. What are the Americans doing right now? They are saving Russia. That’s my personal, subjective opinion. Maybe I’m getting ahead of myself, because the war isn’t over yet.
– But when might it end?
-I think we will end the war in the Western bloc. This is what is called a historic moment. Strangely enough, post-war recovery will be easier for us than for the Russian Federation. Why? Because we will have our own state, clear goals, objectives, and understanding. It’s scary to talk about this because the price is too high, but Vladimir Putin is actually cementing the Ukrainian nation. Ukraine will only be Ukraine. There will be no Russian admixtures here. Now, in fact, some of the people who voted for pro-Russian forces have been killed by the Russians, some are living on German social assistance, and the Germans are pretending not to understand anything. Well, that’s a separate story. Everyone understands perfectly well that the Russian Federation is a Nazi state and none of them will leave.
-A Pyrrhic victory?
-I’m not sure, to be honest. It is clear that for us, the maximum position was a return to the 1991 borders. Everything depends on Western aid, but the Americans, both under the current and previous presidents, have tried very hard to prevent us from suddenly destroying this fascist state.
– When do you predict Ukraine will regain its temporarily occupied territories?
– Globally, everything is in our hands. Some states have been waiting for decades, some a little less. Again, the question is what we will be like after the hostilities end. And now, as they say, everything is still going to freeze. The only question is where and under what conditions.
– What would you say to Putin if you were standing in front of him?
-I’ve already said everything I wanted to say. I have no questions for him. I’m not even sure if any Ukrainians still have questions for him. We passed the stage of words a long time ago. Perhaps only journalists from India might still have questions, because India is very far from us.
– What is the most ridiculous statement you have heard from Russians about Ukraine?
-It’s all nonsense, really. I really like the story about two slaves and a piece of land. We even joked about it in our family for a while.
– Considering that your wife is Russian, if I’m not mistaken, this joke takes on a whole new meaning.
– My wife is not actually Russian. It just so happens that she has Russian citizenship, but she is of a different ethnicity. I’m not sure if that’s important. People should not be judged by their passports.
– Will Russia fall apart after the war, or will it tighten its belt and carry on?
-I don’t know, but it won’t fall apart. We Ukrainians like to think that they will disappear and there will be a sea there. There definitely won’t be a sea there. We just need to stop thinking about them.
